Monday, July 2

thoughts on GW rules design in 6th

So, like the rest of the gaming world this weekend was full of 6th edition.  I read through the book a few times and has about half a million "Did you see..." Calls and texts to help me miss parts I skimmed over.  Overall I was impressed with the rules design behind 6th. For example.

In one game I was playing an opponent who had a bastion (not that broken might I add).  He remembered reading something about being able to fire the weapons in the bastion on 'auto fire.'  Well when we looked at the bastion the weapon entries were
- "Gun emplacement with (weapon)" and
- 4 emplaced heavy bolters.

I was like, 'oh crap one is a gun emplacement and one is an emplaced gun... I was pretty sure this was one of those points that GW wouldn't clarify and we would be left arguing about for 5 years. "Is an emplaced gun a gun emplacement?

Well, we then cracked open the rulebook and looked up "Gun Emplacement." (p. 105) I was surprised to see that it was actually in the rulebook under its own heading, not mixed in another paragraph about weapons or something.  The definition was clear as to how it fired and who could fire it.  We then looked up "emplaced weapon," and by god it was in the rules too (p. 96) not only that but it talked about automatic fire and how it works.

The issue was solved and we moved on to play our game.  We didn't argue or need to dice off, the rules answered things clearly for us when previous editions of the game would have left us debating "Gun emplacement vs emplaced gun."

So, despite what you think about 6th edition and its new rules I can honestly say that the book is well written and hopefully it will stop a lot of semantic arguments in the future.

Want another example? Look up snap fire and over watch, then look up "wall of death," for flamers and tell me if flamers can fire snap shots or overwatch.

What has been your experince with rules debates in 6th edition? Has the rulebook made things clear for you?



  1. I am still waiting for my book, GW stiffed several orders with several stores in my area. Instead of enjoying a GW weekend with new rules I am forced to wait for them to get their heads out of their arse to deliver the rest.

    From the copies I did see, the index is decent and the book itself is well written. Time will tell if things are broken or not. I can say that the two FOC and the allies can create some serious combos that is just insane.

  2. Yea, but I spent all weekend trying to break the FOC at 2k and allies and though the combos are cool, I can't find one build to rule them all. In fact I find that without double FOC at 1999 and without allies certain armies just aren't good at all. Oddly if you're playing at 2k you need allies and double FOC to level the playing field. But that is my opinion after one

  3. Well, I don't think anything can "rule them all" but there is several out there that could be VERY ugly. Depending on your dice, your opponents dice, how you both play and the mission also factors in to ruling a game.

    Try this for ugly for 2k:
    8 Rune Priests (bought at 4 per list 2 per HQ slot)
    2 Grey Hunter Squads from each list, add melta, rhino, power weapon
    4 Wolf Guard (to go in each unit) power fist and combi melta

    You have about 200ish points to blow, add one more WG and Scout Squad, two small Long Fangs or whatever...Now you have 4 Psyker Rhino(backs) slapping psychic powers over the field. I have yet to test this, but damm it is ugly as hell on paper.

  4. That is pretty mean until the guy against you takes four night scythes and 3 doom scythes ad laughs while you can't shoot him.

    We have to remember tha while you're doing nastiness, so is your opponent.

  5. Good luck with that, LOL :)

    When you read the missions you will see, as I did, that 4 troops and a deathstar are never going to cut it. Also with the nasty things that can happen to units in the game now the priests could go down in a hurry leaving you without any responce.

    And what do you do when 3 to 5 flyers or flying MCs are above???
    The double FOC just sucks down the points so fast its hard to keep in things needed to handle all the random lists and events that can happen.

    I just dont see the double FOC as a problem, I tried to build a 8 HQ Daemon list, after I got the HQs and Troops done I was almost unable to do anything else. Then looking at how it would play...No thanks.

  6. I played 3 games this weekend and read through the book a dozen or so times. From my games and watching others, assault def took a hit, but it's still important so you can't right it out of your lists. It seems the new book rewards balanced list the best. Deathstars can still be pretty nasty but I think people will find that if they throw too many points into any one aspect that they'll be lacking too much in the others to compensate easily. There's nothing really broken with allies/2 FOC or fliers IMO. But non flying vehicles got shafted, I probably won't run any of my walkers anymore (which sucks because I have a bunch of sentinels, kans/deffs, and dreads), with 3 glances killing you it seems that you rarely get a chance to do much, i only foresee them being useful as back field shooters :(. Fortifications seem pretty much appropriately costed and I can definitely see people taking bastions and defense lines. The fortress might look like a lot of points but I think it's worth it for everything it gives, keep in mind buildings don't have HP so you gotta pen on that av14 to do something. Overall I think it's a really nice book, but I'm pretty sad that most of my builds from 5th have huge disadvanteges now. Just my 2cents...

  7. I agree that at least right now I don't want to run any vehicles! Foot FTW!

    1. Now, I have a completely different opinion based on what I saw and played..imagine that? I think lists with a 'low to medium' density of vehicles are probably going to have some problems. However, the ability to put a bunch of AV14 into a list is pretty sweet. We'll see how the foot builds do when they've got a couple Vindis and 3 Leman Russ pounding on them. With the new blast rules and the survivability of single gun Tanks it opens up the build I always wanted. Plus it's damn easy to get a +5 Cover save..not to mention it goes up in Night Fighting which is definitely more common.

      I think the 'Iron Wolves' just might work now..just got to buy 3 Leman Russ's and squeeze them in the list...

  8. I'm still trying to figure out an effective foot based answer to flyers (for armies like Nids or my Daemons a winged MC could step up but I'm still wondering about lists w/o MC's to field). Still waiting on my copy of the rules to arrive as well, anyone have any suggestions about how Foot can take out flying in 6th ed?

    1. Phoenix,
      It may not fit with your fluff or gameplay, but the only 'skyfire' weapon I can see available to foot lists is the quad gun. An aegis line with gun will cost 100 points, a bastion with gun will cost 125 points.

      You'll be able to shoot at fliers with normal BS or let it auto fire at BS2 with 4 twin linked shots.

      The rest of the time you'll be hitting on a 6, so single high strength shots are out. Massed twin linked medium strength is in. There's brain leech worms on a gunfex or two, but after that you'll be scraping the barrel.

      But it's not just about the fliers. Brent thinks nids will be the sleeper hit of this edition. Here's one reason why; during night fighting, any nid unit that's only 24" inches away and within 6" of a venomthrope will get a 2+ cover save. Including monstrous creatures in the open. All units at 36" or more, which is where your venomthrope should be, cannot be targeted.

      Until last week, my primary list is was a fully reserved bike army with an HQ retinue tuned to assault on the turn it comes in from the flank. Now I can't fully reserve. Or assault when coming in. Don't know who was smoking what when these ideas were green lit. Still loving more then hating the changes, can't be a hater, but more importantly, I've enjoyed all the games I've played.

  9. I watched the fortress in action today... get it... and put the anti air laz and krak salvo/missile volley thing on it. Its actually 4 diff buildings and short of jumping onto the top only has one way in. Land Raider cost for warhound reliance and firepower. Just make sure you have anti infantry troops scattered on it to shoot units up as they try and get near you.

  10. to stick to the question:
    flamers can´t snapfire because they don´t use BS but a template
    Overwatch can only be done with snapfire..........

  11. Template weapons can fire overwatch, even though they cant snap fire. They get d3 hits (pg52 wall of death heading)